Curse

Damian979 · Jul 08, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

PvE isn't dead it's old. Adding, subtracting, or dividing something old just makes it old and different. The only way to make it all new is do away with the old and make all new content (which will never happen) or create a time machine and jump back a few years (gogogo).

reality is harsh, I know

Tenebrae · Jul 08, 2009, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblye

You say PvE is broken.
... lalalala personal statements and so on

To summarize ... the game is fun as it is for me.
It aint broke, so why fix it?

Sorry to tell you but if you have fun playing pacman that doesnt mean Pacman is supercool and everyone should play it instead of WOW or somethin , see my point ?.

Glad you still have fun with it but it doesnt change the fact that your opinion doesnt reflect reality. Reality is that this game has 4 years and isnt going to have more content so yes .... is dying. Not dead now , but its on the process ... otherwise they wont be working on GW2

HuntMaster Avatar · Jul 08, 2009, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblye

You say PvE is broken.
I say it's just fine.
I dont play PvP, and have no desire to.
I dont pug either.
I am a casual player.
I like the PVE enviroment the way it is.
You say skills are imbalanced.
I think the skills are fine.
If a hero team seems overbalanced to you, because you can devote hours upon hours of your time to analyzing how it effects PvP, or how it makes the economy suffer or any myriad of other arguments ... great for you.
I could care less.
Its a game. Its fun to kill time with.
Broken? how can fun be broken? because its not challenging enough for you?
Its plenty challenging enough for me ... Because i cannot devote years of my life fine tuning how quickly i interrupt a skill on an opponent.
Because i have no interest in dissecting skills to the point that i know them better than the developer.
I have no interest in the gw economy and how its effected by perma blah.
I have a mortgage to pay ... i worry about THAT economy.

To summarize ... the game is fun as it is for me.
It aint broke, so why fix it?

This is just pure awesome. I agree with this beyond measure! This post is so good its damn near a work of art.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Sorry to tell you but if you have fun playing pacman that doesnt mean Pacman is supercool and everyone should play it instead of WOW or somethin , see my point ?.

Glad you still have fun with it but it doesnt change the fact that your opinion doesnt reflect reality. Reality is that this game has 4 years and isnt going to have more content so yes .... is dying. Not dead now , but its on the process ... otherwise they wont be working on GW2

-And removing godmode won't change any of that.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 08, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

The problem with PvE is that stuff is so overpowered there's no satisfaction in completing most things anymore because it all becomes too easy. You can easily hit the end chest in FoW on HM every 30 minutes all day. This is an elite area that's supposed to be hard!

Not to mention just about everything can be run taking away the effort to even try in the first place.

Seriously when was the last time you did a CoF run on HM without 600/Smite? I'm sure some smart ass will put his hand up but you can see my point.

Perma? Nerf. Probably the most broken thing in PvE at the moment. Runs anywhere, tanks and solos everywhere. The only thing most people use Assassins for is Shadow Form, before that they were a rare class, but people who played them at least knew how to play them. I've seen some permas nowadays who dont even have half a clue how to play a melee role properly.

600/Smite? Nerf. It's rare to find anyone who will try to do a dungeon without a 600/Smite team these days, the fact they can run pretty much any dungeon in the game is a joke. I thought Z-Quests would solve this, and in fairness they have but not much.

It's not just builds and skills though. The lack of anything new to do is slowly killing the game into a farmfest with overpowered builds. Z-Quests dont add anything new to the game, they just get you doing old stuff over and over for a few extra equipment slots (or whatever else you might use the coins on). Again it's just a farmfest, as players strive to do as many Z-Quests with as many characters as they can before moving onto the next one.

The Guild Wars playerbase has been turned into mindless drones who just repeat the same shit over and over again because they have stupidly overpowered builds that allow them to do so. No wonder the game is dying.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jul 08, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

The problem with PvE is that stuff is so overpowered there's no satisfaction in completing most things anymore because it all becomes too easy. You can easily hit the end chest in FoW on HM every 30 minutes all day. This is an elite area that's supposed to be hard!

But see how others play the game does not affect YOU at all nor does how fast they beat an area and you can choose not to use powerful builds if you want more challenge.

Buster · Jul 08, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Arenanet is using existing content that most players have played a million times over to come up with new ideas because we aren't getting another campaign or mini expansion. Not a totally bad idea but without anything really new it is boring. I like Guild Wars as much as the next fan here but the wait for Guild Wars 2 seems a heck of a lot longer when there is nothing majorly to be excited about Guild Wars right now.

Marverick · Jul 08, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Get rid of the OP'd stuff, seriously. Gate of Pain yesterday consisted of a ton of perma sins running the mission for 5-7k each.

Get rid of all these bs grind titles. If you want to keep PvE skills (which aren't that bad of an idea if the op'd ones are toned down a bit), tie them to attribute lines, which will also help decrease their power to something more reasonable.

Hmmm... make hard mode actually hard by better mob AI/skillbars/less straightforward buffs. This is never going to happen but meh.

fenix · Jul 08, 2009, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

But see how others play the game does not affect YOU at all nor does how fast they beat an area and you can choose not to use powerful builds if you want more challenge.

I personally wish I could find a low req Bone Dragon Staff, because I'd love to be able to sell it, and have enough money to buy myself a high req one for my Ele, and an Eternal Blade, and Obsidian Blade for my Warrior.

If people are farming the Dungeon where they drop in ridiculous times, the value of the BDS drops as well. If eventually, I come across one with my regular balanced team, the value could have dropped so much that I won't be able to get the items I was originally after.

People being able to clear UW in 33 minutes with TWO perma sins, is absolutely ridiculous. Not only does it lower the value of drops there, but means that instead of a team of 8 beating it in 33 minutes, it is FOUR teams beating it in 33, which of course means more people will farm there, as it doesn't require team organisation - just you and a friend.

Ctb · Jul 08, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

I don't know why people argue over this. PvE is "dead" because the core players have already played through it to boredom and new blood is dropping off steeply as the game ages. You can't keep people around if you don't give them something new and interesting to do, and Guild Wars just doesn't do that. It's great fun while it lasts, but it doesn't have more than maybe a year or two of staying power with most people because it just doesn't have all that much content.

You want to revive PvE? Give people something to do so they have a reason to come back in to the game

HuntMaster Avatar · Jul 08, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

I personally wish I could find a low req Bone Dragon Staff, because I'd love to be able to sell it, and have enough money to buy myself a high req one for my Ele, and an Eternal Blade, and Obsidian Blade for my Warrior.

If people are farming the Dungeon where they drop in ridiculous times, the value of the BDS drops as well. If eventually, I come across one with my regular balanced team, the value could have dropped so much that I won't be able to get the items I was originally after.

People being able to clear UW in 33 minutes with TWO perma sins, is absolutely ridiculous. Not only does it lower the value of drops there, but means that instead of a team of 8 beating it in 33 minutes, it is FOUR teams beating it in 33, which of course means more people will farm there, as it doesn't require team organisation - just you and a friend.

Ah! So the truth comes out. People want nerf's for personal platinum profit! I knew it! So because someone figured out a way to make more money faster than the average gamer, other gamers are complaining because they can't make as much without using a build/profession they don't enjoy as much. Now I understand.

So the whole point of decreasing or ruining someones fun is over a few platinum. Well that says it all.

Trylo · Jul 08, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

if mobs had 8 skills that actually were coordinated with each other. i would take that way over some crap 33% IAS/IMS boost and level 20 attributes.

all HM added was the need to kill quickly because theres no way a monk can prot spirit 8 people.

Unreal Havoc · Jul 08, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

But see how others play the game does not affect YOU at all nor does how fast they beat an area and you can choose not to use powerful builds if you want more challenge.

If it was just hero and hench I would agree with you.

Some of us like to play with real people too though.

When the majority of the playerbase is only into perma SC and 600/Smite it gets real boring fast.

4thVariety · Jul 08, 2009, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Two ways to shake up people:

(1) Add content. Nothing beats new content, but it's also the one thing draining resources the most.

(2) Change the rules. People are mindless drones only because enemies refuse to be unpredictable. More random elements to their skillbar upon spwaning and people will not be able to exploit them as much. But in a time where some skillbars for a bunch of GvG Henchmen calls for establishing a test kru, even that option might not be feasible.

Torpoon · Jul 09, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Lots of funny posts in this thread. Many people are claiming that to make a game challenging, you don't use a certain build. Going by that same logic, inorder for me to make the game more challenging, I should avoid making my character stronger and purposely place useless skills on my bar so that the game is more difficult for me.... That isn't how it works. I liked Guild Wars because it was a strategy game back when it was just prophecies, but it just isn't as fun if your strategizing to perform poorly. 'This' is why overpowered skills kill this game. You want the game to be hard, but you want there to be some limit to your power, but placing several forms of god mode in the game just turns it into well, a joke.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jul 09, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

If it was just hero and hench I would agree with you.

Some of us like to play with real people too though.

But you still can. I don't understand this point in the discussion. I never have trouble finding a pug, or getting a group in my guild or alliance. Plus I have people on my friends list. So what is it that I am doing differently from others?

I doubt my guild or alliance members or friends list buddies are the "coolest" people in the game, which they are.

-And I'm far from the best or friendliest player in the game. So I don't see how this can be a problem.

I play almost daily and I tend to play different areas. The older areas are dying in prophecies, but in factions, nightfall and eotn, people are still there in many areas. The empty areas are perfect for guildies/alliance members and friends.

[DE] · Jul 09, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblye

You say PvE is broken.
I say it's just fine.
I dont play PvP, and have no desire to.
I dont pug either.
I am a casual player.
I like the PVE enviroment the way it is.
You say skills are imbalanced.
I think the skills are fine.
If a hero team seems overbalanced to you, because you can devote hours upon hours of your time to analyzing how it effects PvP, or how it makes the economy suffer or any myriad of other arguments ... great for you.
I could care less.
Its a game. Its fun to kill time with.
Broken? how can fun be broken? because its not challenging enough for you?
Its plenty challenging enough for me ... Because i cannot devote years of my life fine tuning how quickly i interrupt a skill on an opponent.
Because i have no interest in dissecting skills to the point that i know them better than the developer.
I have no interest in the gw economy and how its effected by perma blah.
I have a mortgage to pay ... i worry about THAT economy.

To summarize ... the game is fun as it is for me.
It aint broke, so why fix it?

However, it is broken to others. If you don't care about balance then it shouldn't affect you when Anet changes skills, fixes AI, and tries to improve the game. Your viewpoint does not equal the viewpoint of others, and it's ignorant to suggest otherwise. Saying a game is balanced because you don't care, or because you're a 'casual' player, is one of the dumbest things I've heard.

Will admitting that the game is broken affect your game play in anyway whatsoever as a casual gamer? No, it won't. Will Anet attempting to fix the game affect your game play in anyway whatsoever as a casual gamer? No, it won't.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jul 09, 2009, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

However, it is broken to others. If you don't care about balance then it shouldn't affect you when Anet changes skills, fixes AI, and tries to improve the game. Your viewpoint does not equal the viewpoint of others, and it's ignorant to suggest otherwise. Saying a game is balanced because you don't care, or because you're a 'casual' player, is one of the dumbest things I've heard.

Will admitting that the game is broken affect your game play in anyway whatsoever as a casual gamer? No, it won't. Will Anet attempting to fix the game affect your game play in anyway whatsoever as a casual gamer? No, it won't.

Unless he uses a build that gets nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torpoon

Lots of funny posts in this thread. Many people are claiming that to make a game challenging, you don't use a certain build. Going by that same logic, inorder for me to make the game more challenging, I should avoid making my character stronger and purposely place useless skills on my bar so that the game is more difficult for me.... That isn't how it works. I liked Guild Wars because it was a strategy game back when it was just prophecies, but it just isn't as fun if your strategizing to perform poorly. 'This' is why overpowered skills kill this game. You want the game to be hard, but you want there to be some limit to your power, but placing several forms of god mode in the game just turns it into well, a joke.

You ever heard of the level 1 FF12 challenge? Or the "No item" challenge? Players that want to challenge themselves do so willingly without requiring the game be changed. Yes they can use the powerful skills but choose not too because they are looking for a challenge.

Thats like someone who wants to lose weight claiming they won't stop eating if there is food around, simply because its there. Someone has to take it away from them for them to stop. I don't understand this mentality at all.

Why should it be up to other people to make it challenging for you when you have the ability to do so on your own? Why should everyone else suffer because of your personal tastes? You don't have to use useless skills, but you don't have to use overpowered skills either.

[edit] this is a good thread with a great discussion, but I need to quit posting before a mod says I'm just +1ing my post count, which I'm not. The point I'm trying to make is this.

Builds get nerfed all the time and it never fixes PvE. It never gets people to play together because people don't want or like playing together unless they know each other and are friendly to one another. Changing skills does not add new content or revitalize the game. It does not help the economy because a new money making build will always be in the game no matter what.

Removing content would be the worst thing anet could do so it won't ever happen. People are too dependant on anet to do everything for the player when the player can choose what they use in their skill bar or who they play with.

Want to bring pugging back to life? honestly? here's the solution. Stop being assholes to each other.

Want the economy to go back to the way it was? Anet should set item buy prices at the merchant for all item skins, mods and inscriptions. then items will ALWAYS be worth the same price. Want a skin to be worth 100k forever? Make the merchant buy them for 100plat +1 gold.

Want player's to chose other players over heroes and henchies? Make heroes and henchies claim 95% of the drops on a regular basis and 100% of the drops on a uncommon basis.

Rework missions and quests to reward players based on the number of real players in the group.

Add in new content for free.

But stop with the bitching, insulting, egotistical "I'm better than you and most people suck" attitude and maybe, just maybe, you all will have the vision of gw you want. But changing skills people like is not a way to get there.

Everyone have a good day.

Seraphim Angel · Jul 09, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I think PvE is fine the way it is. People assume that everyone plays with ALL 4games when there are thousands of people who just play with just 1 or 2 games. They also assume everyone can run the same builds. Its up to the player to make it they way they want to. If you want to make it easy/hard it up to me and me only. Example run only nightfall skills,NO PvE skills and so on. ANET has created a game that has lasted for over 4 years and will continue to thrive even after GW2 arrives. 4 years is alot longer then most MMO's out there. They have given us hundreds of options to play the game as we wish.

M'Aiq The Liar · Jul 09, 2009, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Some of us like to play with real people too though.

When the majority of the playerbase is only into perma SC and 600/Smite it gets real boring fast.

And not long ago, the community was only into tank-n-spank with an obsidian flesh warrior and SF eles. The community flocks towards whatever's popular and makes the game easy.

I agree with whoever it was that said that the community itself is the problem. The game's plagued with self-important jerks anymore. It was their arrogance towards the other players that gave ANet the idea for heroes and killed pugging, but strangely enough, heroes are what keeps me playing PvE. If I had to deal with the community when I played, I'd have uninstalled by now.

Torpoon · Jul 09, 2009, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

You ever heard of the level 1 FF12 challenge? Or the "No item" challenge? Players that want to challenge themselves do so willingly without requiring the game be changed. Yes they can use the powerful skills but choose not too because they are looking for a challenge.

Thats someone who wants to lose weight claiming they won't stop eating if their is food around, simply because its there. Someone has to take it away from them for them to stop. I don't understand this mentality at all.

Ah, I was making that post in reference to a 'multiplayer' game called Guild Wars. I'm pretty sure if I ran in naked or with no weapon in almost any pug, they'd restart and kick me from their group. So yes, balance is needed for multiplayer.